Wednesday, February 13, 2013

"Fire is the Devil's Only Friend"

Just a few thoughts about this Dorner fiasco.

First, lest there be a misunderstanding, I think the guy was a murderous creep. He had no justification for killing anybody. Nothing that might have been done to him justifies any of the mayhem he caused and caused to be caused by the incredibly inept, cowardly, and trigger-happy Southern California police forces.

Now, let's imagine that Dorner, rather than being as he was a black supporter of Obama and the prevailing liberal ethos--including gun control--had been a white supremacist/survivalist, who before going off on his murderous rampage had posted a screed praising Sarah Palin. What sort of press coverage would we have seen? I don't think I need to describe it--you know what it would have been. The calls for the Tea Party to "stop the hate," for conservatives to distance themselves from this sort of behavior and thinking; we would have seen John McCain falling all over himself trying to get as much camera time as possible as he blasted the "extremists within our ranks." The media frenzy would have been a sight to behold! Funny, in contrast, how Obama supporters are not being called to order and made to disavow Dorner and his ilk; how the media is not blasting his views on gun control and support for the liberal orthodoxy. No need to go on. You can all come up with all sorts of this on your own without my bloviating disrupting your thought process.

The cops. Readers of this blog know my views on the state of the police in America today. I find the overwhelming number of of police forces to be inept, overpaid, overstaffed, over-equipped, poorly trained, and of a brutish disposition that sees the public as the enemy. The only thing I can say in favor of American cops is that European ones are even worse.

The worst features of the police were on display throughout this Dorner mess. If he was clearly a troubled man, why was he accepted in the LAPD in the first place? Were there no clues pointing to the fragile nature of his psyche? Or was he a perfectly normal person driven mad by the LAPD, by the Code of Blue which declared him the unit "bitch" for having ratted out a superior for brutality?

Once he snapped, the operation to nab Dorner was a disaster. As I have noted before, innocent civilians were shot in bizarre cases of mistaken identity. The crack police forces that defend us thought that two petite Asian ladies delivering newspapers in the morning "looked like" a nearly three hundred-pound, bald, muscle-bound black man--so, of course, they shot these ladies. Likewise they shot a white couple driving a vehicle completely different from Dorner's. I understand that they had a bus load of marachis in their gunsights when word came that Dorner was dead. Lawsuits, please! Fast and furious to coin a phrase popular among liberal defenders of the law and proponents of "gun control." For once, I hope the lawsuits blossom like weeds after a spring shower.

So our heroes in blue find that Dorner is holed up in a cabin in the touristy Big Bear Lake area. They found out through meticulous scientific and dogged police work . . . well, actually, they found out because two maids told them Dorner was there. So they bring in enough manpower and firepower to fight a small war. They have him surrounded; he can't escape; hunger and thirst will eventually drive him out or provoke his suicide. . . so, of course, they decide to burn him to death--did they know he was alone? Now that's due process. If conservatives waterboard some terrorist creep, that's torture. If liberals burn a suspect to death -- Waco, anybody? -- well, that's just stuff that happens . . .

What a weird world we have created for our kids . . .


  1. LAPD and other LEO's were not going to let this guy surrender and have his media spotlight shine for months before, during and after his trial.
    That is why once they cornered him, they moved the media 5 miles away and banned overflights. They wanted his death to be unobserved and handled the LAPD's way. Compliant media complied.
    You are so right that had this been a white male and conservative, loads of demagoguery would thunder from our self proclaimed elites.
    The fact he was black, Obama friendly and pro gun control means the media will forget him as quickly as possible.

    1. "wanted his death to be unobserved"
      More likely wanted him "media blind" as they took up positions, like they said. Smart move. They had plenty of newsfolks on hand, just not live feeds, but that might just be my bias.

      The SBCSO is absolutely NOT the LAPD. He was given honest chances of safe surrender and chose otherwise.

    2. Again reports I read was that the LAPD Swat team was airlifted to the cabin prior to the teargasing, fire and bulldozing of the cabin. Reports I read said LAPD Swat was on the scene during the last stages of the siege.

      I don't want to make anything out of the POS Dorner but I do believe any police force that is determined to execute a citizen, without trial, is a fearsome PD more appropriate for Mexico than a progressive, civil liberties conscience, human rights loving state such as CA.

  2. I shake my head at some of the sad LE moves during this episode. Whoever commanded that "command post" in Big Bear needs to be demote or resign. The shoot first cops need to be charged. So much to criticize, so little to praise.

    Kudos, though, to the CDF&G Game Wardens involved - there appeared to be several - who are cops, too, and seemed to function well when needed. They are location experts on that high country backwoods wilderness area and came through when needed.

    Two things about the last stand cabin scenario. The fire might have been inadvertent, a side effect, of the operation. Happens sometimes. The other thing is the guys doing the attack were compadres of the slain officer. They were going to do nothing that exposed themselves to dying, too, but the do-er was not going to escape that cabin unless he surrendered. Newsfolks say cops broadcast many bullhorn demands he do just that. He didn't. He chose his own demise. It is not on the cops. They had no duty to gently starve him out. Once he shot the San Berdoo deputies, killing one, and barricaded himself in the cabin, his fate was sealed.

    1. Yesterday, the Daily Caller had the audio of the SBCSO officers shouting "Burn the MFer down."

      "The other thing is the guys doing the attack were compadres of the slain officer. They were going to do nothing that exposed themselves to dying, too"

      But one of them did die during the seige firefight. And another deputy was shot.

      Why burn the shooter out? Because dead men can't testify. Dead men can't talk about the corruption of the LAPD.

      And then Mark Lamont Hill, a man who has the capacity to warp young minds as a college professor, claims the search and seige was "exciting, like Django." But although Professor Hill refers to a movie, we are to assume that movies/video games/rap music has absolutely nooooooo influence on anyone. Yeah, right.

      The left is quick to blame the right for any tragedy that happens in this country. The guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in Austin, Tx was immediately labeled a "TEA Partier" because of his name. Oooops, he was a Marxist.


    2. Jared Loughtner, the Tucson shooters, was deemed to be "far right" by the media, before it was revealed that he was pretty much a-political. Even the sheriff there blamed right wing talk radio, radical conservatives, yada, yada, yada. Ooops. Loughtner was simply evil. Not crazy, evil.

      There is a purpose to all of this, and if you have read even a minimum of history, you know the reason. Step one: give authority to those who abuse it; step two, find a scapegoat and divide people against each other; step three, ban personal weapons.


    3. Despite the ineptness of the LAPD, I'm not sad this guy wasn't taken alive. The ensuing media circus trail, complete with Johnny Cochrane wannabe and moronic LA jurors?

      Diplomad raises some great larger issues (it varies from city to city), but I'm just as glad this POS got a traditional end.

  3. Early reports should be viewed with suspicion. I read and saw reports that LEO's were yelling to burn the house down quite quickly once they cornered him. How does that square with your locals story about bull horned requests to surrender?

    Dorner was a first class POS and deserved to die, after a proper trial. My observation is that LEO's possess vast firepower and they made little or no attempt to restrain themselves yesterday. LAPD has a rich history of abuse of power and lying and now they have massive firepower to direct at those they hate. We don't know how the end came yesterday because LEO's made sure no media was around to record it. All we can do is hear the LEO's version of events. I will doubt everything they say based upon their having a big motivation to lie.

    1. Hadn't heard the "burn it down" meme. Most - not all - of the media at the cabin were locals, hence more believable IMO. It is a cell dead area, mostly, so I will read some of the written reports before taking everything as gospel. I agree not to trust LAPD's word on anything. But see earlier comment re: SBCSO. World of difference, IMO.

      Sorry to rant so much, D2.0.

    2. et al.

    3. Anon, thanks for repeater network communications link. Change, did indeed hear burn order. Also lots of disciplined maneuvering and operations. Disagree with choice of tactic but wasn't asked. Agree with obvious push to bring things to a close before nightfall. As for "no media being around" have now read detailed eye witness first person news accounts of final few hours by staff of both San Bernardino Sun and Riverside Press Enterprise. Lots of newsies were allowed on the ground less than a block from cabin. It's the woods. Voices and sounds carry a long way. I trust what they wrote. Anything further I'm at gmail.

    4. 49er,

      There was live TV being shown all over L.A. I started watching it about 10m before they popped the first gas grenade and stopped watching when the fire started.

  4. "I find the overwhelming number of of police forces to be inept, overpaid, overstaffed, over-equipped, poorly trained, and of a brutish disposition that sees the public as the enemy."

    Wow. That's tarring a lot of dedicated law enforcement men and women with a very broad brush. Based on...? New Orleans during Katrina? Rodney King? Dorner? A handful of acknowledged poorly-handled events and you're condemning an "overwhelming number of police forces"? If you have particular experience with "brutish" police forces, let's hear it.

    Otherwise, New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago, for example, are not the whole of America, and those police forces are not necessarily representative of the greater part of the law enforcement community across the country.

    It might behoove us to digest more facts as we learn them before making such broad judgments.

    1. Verdict first. Evidence later. Off with their heads!

  5. Diplomad,

    "My bloviating disrupting your thought process."


    I come here so that your eloquent thoughts can interrupt my own internal bloviations!

    With all due respect,


  6. The cynic in me wonders if those civilian shootings were as accidental as we think.

  7. "I find the overwhelming number of of police forces to be inept, overpaid, overstaffed, over-equipped, poorly trained, and of a brutish disposition that sees the public as the enemy."

    And you have examined the overwhelming number of police forces in America? You must be super human. That would be one explanation and then there would be another far less flattering one.

    1. Hello Anonymous,

      DiploMad is entitled to his opinion. Many people have had bad experiences with the local police who are supposed to be protecting them. In fact I do not trust the police and if I don’t trust my local police does it really matter how many other police departments are really good?

      I live across the street from a policeman and I wish that he would go somewhere very far away from me. A few years back (maybe as many as 10 now) my neighbor was working for a police department in our area. One day he gets into an argument with another officer in the day room and pulls his sidearm on the guy (a rookie). The rookie wasn’t going to make waves but some other cops saw what happened and forced him to report the incident. My neighbor was allowed to resign.

      After his resignation he worked an EMT for a while before he caught on with another police department in the area. One night when he was off duty and working security at one of the area casino boats when some guy started weaving his way through the parking lot. My neighbor ordered him to stop but he didn’t so my neighbor beat him into a coma with his night stick. It turns out the dude was diabetic and having some serious problems. My neighbor, having been an EMT, should have recognized what was happening but he didn’t. The man never came out of his coma and died two weeks later. No board of inquiry was ever convened.

      Then a year and a half ago my neighbor was at a bar with his girlfriend after one of those summer food fests. Some guy at the bar started hitting on the girlfriend while he was in the restroom. When neighbor cop returned he pulled his Glock, put it to the guy’s forehead, and told him if he ever did that again he would blow his brains out. This time my very special neighbor got some paid time off but is back on the job.

      I don’t find what DiploMad said to be hard to believe at all.


    2. Nor would I want a neighbor like that. Be he a sworn police officer or a trashtruck driver or a CPA or a Good Humor man.

      I don't know the relative numbers of sworn officers in each department, but you also are generalizing across a broad spectrum of law enforcement from a single individual. I realize that most of us do that as a human pattern. However, it does ignore all of the officers in each department who do not behave like your neighbor.

      Further, let's contrast the actions of the first department with the second: the first demonstrated appropriate action taken: the neighbor's peers showed their disapproval of his actions by encouraging a report, and the department essentially booted the neighbor from the force. The second department obviously has failed to discipline/ fire/charge the neighbor for his wrongful acts, and that does indeed reflect poorly on that department. And on the local county prosecutor. Or perhaps it reflects the strength of the local police union. I can't tell from your story....

      But what we've got here is a wash: one good police department and one not so good. And one individual with obvious anger management issues. That deserves a blanket condemnation of all law enforcement?

      PS: diabetes and drunkenness are often confused, and can only be definitively differentiated by a blood test. Which is why I believe that typical LE policy when on a "drunk" call is to request a fire department assist, with EMTs qualified to test for diabetes.

    3. ColoComment,

      You do make some good points but you also seem to be going way out of your way to miss some of mine. Of course I would hate to have my neighbor if he was a Good Humor man instead of a cop. However if he was a Good Humor man he would be in prison for committing multiple felonies. Could it be that no one is interested in prosecuting him because he wears a badge? Sometimes I guess the obvious needs to be pointed out.

      Also I am certainly generalizing among police departments in my area. One city (Pop 80,000) doesn't seem to have the time or resources to prosecute a man who committed assault against a police officer (pulling a gun on someone is assault is it not?). Wow, if the Good Humor man did that I think he would be in trouble.

      And what about the other city who hired this office with proven "anger management" issues? I suppose they may not have asked him why he left the other city's police department or checked his references. More than likely they knew and just didn't care. Hiring this man as a police officer reflects very poorly on the leadership, and union, of that department whether their decision was based on incompetence or apathy.

      Yeah, I know that it can be hard to tell the difference between a drunk and a diabetic at times. As a certified EMT he should have known to handle the situation better. You seem to be saying that his problem is that he just guessed wrong. Would it have been alright if he beat a legitimate drunk to death instead?

      I wonder if I asked an good cop "how many bad ones it takes to damage the reputations of the good ones" what (s)he would say. I would be very surprised to hear that as long as the good ones out number the bad ones, even by a little, that it's "a wash."


    4. I too have know bad neighbors who happen to be cops. I also have been shown courtesy by cops. Given how many this country has its inevitable too many are rogues or a-holes and those guys being union, aren't going anywhere.
      The other factor is the plethora of crimes in this country that the local cops get to enforce. My goodness they will get you for trivial things(like talking on a cell phone while driving) that cost hundreds of dollars in fines. Police have become like the King's constabulary of old enforcing petty rules to rake in big gelt from the peasantry.

      In my view its not just the isolated bad cop, its the overbearing laws that all cops enforce that are turning ordinary citizens against even the good cops.

  8. Regarding the above Anonymous post and others like it; they always seem to appear after incidents like this. They disgust me. Know this, self-serving band of blue; you are no longer trusted by America, but you already know that.

  9. In addition to the recording of the excited LEO yelling "burn the #$@&$ down" there is another that indicates pre meditation if true. Thier behavior was extremely reckless and appalling at best. While they had a good ideal that Dorner was in there, they had no clue who else might have been when these a$$ clowns decided to torch the place. They have provided no reason, compelling or otherwise, why they couldn't have laid siege to the cabin. It sure looks like these sorry suckers were primarily motivated by fear and rage.


    P.s. harsh criticism of police forces should have been expected when cities and towns decided to fill thier budget gaps with fines and junk fees.

  10. ColoComment: Good Heavens, Man! Have you not read of the innocent number of people victimized beaten, killed in some instances, many of their pets killed, in no-knock raids where the police hit the WRONG ADDRESS? Not to mention the mayhem and murder inflicted during no-knocks conducted at the right address but on the wrong person or persons. City, State, and Federal Police Officers have all done this. Have you not read about the police fury in Indiana where the state legislature passed a law authorizing an innocent home owner to defend his home when "invaded" by police? I use invaded to mean a situation where the police do not announce themselves with proper credentials and advise that they have a warrant before forcing entry, usually forcing entry in the most frightening, unorthodox, and dramatic way possible.) Have you not read about Erik Scott, a West Point graduate and veteran who was shot at a Costco in Las Vegas while carrying a legal concealed weapon while with his girlfriend had to stand watching? And have you read about the two year vendetta conducted y the Las Vegas police against his family and girlfriend for challenging what was a cold-blooded, defenseless execution while the shooter received a reward by a police association? Did you not see the U-tube video of the cop in Akron/Canton(?), OH harassing a man at traffic stop, never permitting the citizen to say a word, all the while the man is desperately trying to inform the policeman that the citizen and almost victim is licensed to carry a concealed weapon? And did you not see the policeman's response, when he finally heard the man had a concealed carry, threatened to kill the man for not disclosing this earlier?

    Thanks to the Doner incident, we now all know that Tear gas has a new meaning: an incendiary bomb. Burn them alive. That’s justice.

    I am well in to middle age. I served my country for five years in a highly hazardous military occupation. I grew up with the highest regard for police as the protector of my liberty, rights,, and safety. Finally, I began to understand that in the eyes of the police, at best we are not citizens but civilians. Read Joseph Wambaugh if you want to understand the attitude of police today. Not very flattering

    1. Anon, in many of the incidents mentioned above you are spot on. Missing, though, seems to be an awareness a majority of LEOs in this country agree those cases are egregious.
      Further, your generalized conclusion seems to miss the point there exists today in this country you and I served at least two vastly different law enforcement models. One based on "military"* style guidelines. the other on "civilian" policing rules. Most departments are trained both ways, btw, and switch back and forth as the situation requires. IMO the troubles usually begin when an incident becomes "militarized". *No offense intended.
      Furthermore, the locales where those models seem more in use are closer to our largest cities - and Las Vegas, or "West Chicago" to anyone who knows US criminal gangland history.
      My reading of ColoComment is a caution against over-generalization, not a defense of bully tactics. Sorta like not blaming all military folk for the actions of one officer at Ft. Hood.

    2. 49er, the problem with your analogy is it's completely wrong.
      One officer at Ft. Hood did something unprecedented in US Army history, so its true you can't broad brush the Army due to Maj. Hassan. What cops all over the country do to civilians is thousands of cases every year of brutality, abuse of their authority or corruption.

      Maj. Hassan unleashed Islamic terror on an Army base, in a case that hasn't happened before. He is a true rare case, unlike the abuse by cops which is a daily event in this country. In fact most people by the age of 30 can speak of a bad experience with a cop, some can speak of terrifying experiences with a cop. Not so with undercover moles who come out as AQ terrorists in the US Army.

  11. Change, "What cops all over the country do to civilians is thousands of cases every year of brutality, abuse of their authority or corruption." Lets say in 2008 "thousands" equaled 40,000 such cases. No excuse for it, that's WRONG. In that year, nationwide according to the USDOJ, there were over 40 million citizen-police individual interactions. Which means less than .01% were bad, Still not good, but not bad enough to tar every LEO with that brush. Rail against injustice but don't be unjust doing so.

    1. Actually, 0.1%, but that doesn't radically alter the substance of your point. Not that I agree with it...

    2. 49er, I'm not painting a broad brush with simplistic rhetoric like you imply. The point I'm making is that cop behavior to us citizens has become unhinged and militaristic. Cops unleashed lethal force for no apparent reason against 3 or 4 obviously innocent civilians as they hunted Dorner. Where is the restraint? From what I've read of US rules of engagement in Afghanistan, our combat troops can't open fire if civies are too close. Not so for our boys in LAPD blue.
      I saw video of cops with drawn handguns and AR rifles stopping people on the roads leading to Big Bear even though the cops knew there man was holed up miles away. That is sick and contemptible but it did show they were going to war and civilians were going to be cowed.

      Cops write tickets for trivial reasons such as using a cell phone against your ears as opposed to in your lap or straight in front of you. Fines are ridiculous for minor traffic violations.

      These abuses of authority add up over time. Civilians will lose respect for all police over time as these insults to free people get worse and worse.

  12. Most people know the the following: There are are three types of people.

    1. There are the Cops.
    2. There are the friends of cops (read those screwing them).
    3. There are a##holes (the rest of us).

    (This from a former Federal Cop).