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Monday, May 28, 2018

Memorial Day 2018, and Thinking of Tommy Robinson

I wrote some years back on another Memorial Day that,
Writing this post on Memorial Day, my thoughts, of course, turned to those who fought and died to preserve our country. My thoughts also turned to the issue of national defense, in general, and whether we still "get it." We all--well, most of us-- understand defending our nation when it comes under physical attack, e.g., Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and most of us--well, many of us--also understand that at times one must defend our country from threats that have not yet blown through our door, e.g., the Kaiser's and the Nazi Fuehrer's Germany, Il Duce's Italy, Kim's North Korea, and Saddam's Iraq come to mind.
I went on to note that in addition to the military we need our other institutions to defend us and make worthwhile the sacrifice of our warriors, and that,
None of our government institutions, however, can over the long term defend our nation without a major change in thinking within our nation about our nation. What kind of a nation do we want? What kind of Western civilization do we want? For that debate, let's go to the UK. There it seems, at least to this outside observer, that the debate has begun in earnest in the wake of the Woolwich savagery which saw two Muslims brutally murder a young soldier in the name of Allah. There are also reports of an attempted killing of a British prison warden by Islamic prisoners "radicalized" in prison. We now see growing outrage over Muslim violence in Britain and what, apparently, was a leftist attempt to alter radically the nature of British society by encouraging immigration from poor countries and have those immigrants become dependent on and vote for Labour. It appears from documents recently made available that this was a planned effort. The Labour politicians involved in altering Britain's immigration laws deliberately sought to change British society, and knew the country would see a rise in social pathologies such as crime as a result. A visitor to any major British city can testify that Labour's plan has succeeded, social pathologies and all. Some two to three million immigrants from the third world entered the UK in less than ten years. The Labour politicians understood that this radical attempt to alter British society would not have public approval, so they did what leftist politicians do best: lie and label as "racist" anybody opposed to this massive social engineering.
I wrote that back in 2013, but certainly in the British case it seems even more relevant today as we read about the arrest and rapid sentencing to prison of Tommy Robinson.  You can agree or disagree with Robinson's stance on issues such as the Islamization of Britain and the pernicious effects that open immigration is having on Britain, but the ham-handed, Orwellian manner in which the authorities there responded to his perfectly valid activities should send a shiver down the spine of all who care about the truth and the preservation of the rights for which our veterans fought and many died. To have the man arrested for attempting to report on the ongoing trial of the members of an "Asian," i.e., Muslim, rape gang, AND to have some Social Justice judge impose a news blackout on the arrest and the "double-plus" fast sentencing is beyond outrageous. This is something we would expect to see in Cuba not in the most important country in Western Europe, and the "mother of all parliaments." Why is the British press going along with the "black-out"?

Here in the USA, we are marginally better off, thanks to the first and second amendments, but headed down the same dark progressive pathway if we do not maintain our vigilance. The arrest and silencing of Robinson is the natural culmination of the progs' war on individual liberty and diversity of thought, and the ceaseless promotion of "lawfare" as a means to impose a totalitarian agenda. We see it at work, most notably, in our decrepit universities.

I hope President Trump raises the violation of Robinson's rights with PM May, and invites him to come to the US to speak. I doubt very much that British vets fought and died to prevent opposition to the Islamization of their country.

69 comments:

  1. One big concern is Tommy's safety in prison. This may be what the authorities would like to happen, but if it did may be the spark to ignite a backlash.

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  2. So glad that you bring up Tommy Robinson. I agree, it´s beyond outrageous. I am incredibly upset about it. And this is happening in a Western country with, as I used to think, an ancient democracy. What´s going on ? I would say that almost everything negative happening in the West, one way or the other, has one common denominator, and that is Islam. It is about Islamization, the effects of Islam on our society. I want to scream !!!!
    Swedishlady

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    1. https://www.isesco.org.ma/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/StrategieExtVELR.pdf

      It is intentional. The destruction of the western world. Degree by little degree. Chip by chip.

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    2. By suicide or natural causes...same end.

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    3. I am optimistic. The world-wide pushback against globalism is proceeding apace. Trump is not an outlier...e.g., Poland just asked for a U.S. military base and is willing to pay two billion to get one. Putin is steaming.

      And don't forget Hungary's election of Orban by a supermajority. He preaches nationalism like the old American nationalism we used to know...

      ...it's steam engine time.

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    4. I saw the Polish request for an American military base there. Which way will our troops be watching---East or West?

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    5. Poland is a nation of that knows well the price of communism and unchecked aggression towards peaceful people. (i,e., the jews who were murdered-some by the polish themselves-only to be murdered in turn by the german and russian army)
      They know it well.

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  3. The Baldwin incident and the authorities behavior is a sign they are losing. They are learning you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
    James

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    1. You can, however, wash what's already out of the tube down the drain.

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    2. Hah, good one!
      James

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  4. This violation of Western values, and in the US would be unconstitutional, is not being reported by most in the media, yet this is a trend that seems to be moving along ever more rapidly in the West.
    There is nothing to stop this from happening in the US except for officials who believe in the rule of law. ALL rules, policies and laws ARE constitutional until adjudicated otherwise. Americans have short memories if they believe otherwise when just mere decades ago African-Americans were treated as second class citizens by state laws and US government indifference.
    The 650,000 Americans who died in the Civil War were fighting over states rights/slavery had died in vain for over 100 years while Jim Crow laws were in force across the US. The 2,757,196 Americans who have died defending the Constitution in major wars should have more respect for their sacrifice than we see with the Far Left trying to circumvent the Bill of Rights of those whom they disagree.
    Keeping quiet about such abuses leads to more abuses of rights and freedoms in our own country because officials will not fear the potential of the people's wrath.

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  5. If President Trump were to invite Tommy to the US... Well, lets just say i would lose all reservations about Trump and start calling him the God Emperor like those nuts over at Vox P.

    Tommy did speak at oxford if i'm not mistaken. So he hasn't been completely pariah-ized. But alas, it would probably be harder to get Tommy outa the UK than it was to get that guy outa Venezuela.

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    1. Those nuts over at VP are not nuts. Just ahead of you on the curve.

      Why would the US be concerned with a British citizen? Mind your own knitting.

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    2. tongue and cheek bubba, roll with the flow...

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  6. No need to import Tommy Robinson to speak in the US. Just be patient. We'll have a Tommy Robinson of our own sooner than we would like...

    CW Buff out...

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  7. Tommy Robinson was not the on the court grounds. He was close to it though. He also asked permission of the court officials first.
    Then he was arrested and sentenced within hours. Within hours he was in prison and the judge made it a CRIME to speak of it.
    Jesus wept.

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  8. Too bad the people of Great Britain have lost the will to revolt.

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    1. I wrote about bigger examples of that at the end of my long post below. The Brits are almost catatonic in their passivity.

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    2. It started when they booted Churchill to the curb and voted for socialism. Socialism infantilizes people. I remember Mark Steyn being shocked on learning that able-bodied people without young children were given welfare. He had to step over their drunken bodies in some parts of Londonistan.

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  9. Imho Britain is lost. That opinion comes from following events there since 2009 (the signing of the Lisbon Treaty).

    If Britain stays in the EU, it will be strangled by taxes and regulations. It will have no external voice and no internal influence. I believe the EU will find a way to separate the City of London from the rest of Britain and coopt control over it, and the rest of Britain will be a provincial backwater of the EU.

    If Britain does wrest itself free, in my opinion it is still lost because 1) Scotland is worse than deadweight, 2) the immigration issue is already unsolvable but is exacerbated everyday by a government determined to pretend there is no problem, and 3) general rot has set in.

    Scotland today is made up of communist drunks who nurse imaginary grievances against England and extort money from it and political power over it. It is a new loss to England. It was only the politicians who cared about keeping Scotland, not the English people who are taxed to support Scots. If you know Andy Murray, you know the Scots.

    The immigrants are not assimilating. Polls show as many as 2/3 “have sympathy for” violent jihadis and 1/5 are willing to commit violence themselves. If that many were willing to make such admissions to pollsters, imagine what the real numbers are. There are now Muslim enclaves, with Muslim mayors, sharia law and no go zones for police. Muslim gangs rape young girls. The gov’t, while claiming everyone is assimilating, recognizes polygamy, pays welfare to multiple wives, allows proselytizing in prisons. doesn’t prosecute female genital mutilation, etc., etc., etc. In many schools English speakers are the minority and in many cities you see more burkas on the streets than you do in Pakistan.
    Gov’t policy is suicidal, almost literally. The National Health Service will do sex change operations but does not have enough cancer drugs or beds for emergency patients. The gov’t issues monthly quotas for hospitals as to how many patients they have to kill. (Britain has an end of life protocol called the Livermore protocol. It involves removing food and water from the patient.) Hospitals are rewarded if they meet their quotas and punished if they miss them. I.e., the British gov’t pays hospitals to kill British citizens.

    The British gov’t passed the Climate Change Act. It provides that by 2050 less carbon will be released than in 1990. To meet this goal, the gov’t is closing down all its fossil fuel energy plants and go to unreliable wind. It is not building nuclear. How it thinks unreliable, expensive wind will provide heat and light and energy for industry is anybody’s guess.

    The worst evidence of rot is the passivity of the population in the face of all this. They did nothing when their government betrayed them by signing the Lisbon Treaty, putting them in the EU with no referendum. When a newspaper about two years ago did an expose on the gov’t’s quotas for hospitals’ killing patients, there was no public outcry. They did nothing when the Tories showed their intent to sabotage Brexit by appointing as Prime Minister pro-immigration, Remainer, Theresa May. They are doing nothing as their government now sabotages Brexit. They seem catatonic.

    I don’t care about Scotland. I fear England is lost. Sadly most Brits I know agree.

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    1. Addendum to my post above as to Britain being a lost cause:

      I left out a paragraph, the one that relates to Tommy Robinson.

      What happened to Robinson, the secrecy and press gag - no surprise. Britain has become a police state. That is a big part of what is rotten in Britain. Kafkaesque hate speech laws. Many civil regulations have now been criminalized. Parents do not have the right to make decisions about their children; social workers workers routinely take children from families; the gov't can even decree the parents must leave the child to die.

      Last week I wrote that the gov't signing the Lisbon Treaty without the populace's consent was the end of democracy/gov't accountability in Britain. I meant that literally. The gov't got away with that betrayal with no resistance from the public. It seems like after that, the gov't decided that once elected,it no longer had any obligation to to act democratically.

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    2. Msher, a sad report about the state of Britain. What can I say ? The situation is similar in many parts of Europe. Today another AllahuAhkbar-shooting in Liege, Belgium, two police-men and one passers-by lost their lives. The terrorist was shot of course. Saved at least the taxpayers some money there, trials,lawyer, prison etc. And this horrible event is not even headline news in MSM. But people who speaks out about the problem -the arrival of Muslims in Europe- who dare do something about it like reporting about Muslim crimes, Muslim conflicts,Muslim problems,they are thrown in jail. The police-state is here. Who is ruling us ? The Saudis ?
      Swedishlady

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    3. "the Livermore protocol"
      It's the Liverpool Pathway.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Care_Pathway_for_the_Dying_Patient

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    4. Msher, You write some very good stuff. I am envious.

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    5. Diplomad

      Thank you. But I bring no professional expertise to my political observations; you do. I hope you will comment often on happenings relating to N Korea and Iran and give us the benefit of what you know from your years at State. You can describe what must be going on behind the scenes as we read about what's in public view. I think all of us 5 or 6 readers are very interested in your expert commentary.

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    6. Michael K

      Thx. The point is by setting quotas and penalizing hospitals which do not meet them, the gov't is ensuring that sometimes non-terminal patients will be put on the Pathway. The British gov't is financially coercing British hospitals into murdering British citizens.

      A major newspaper did a huge exposé of this, expecting a huge uproar. The Brits are so brain-dead there was none. I personally read several thousand comments to the exposé and all I saw were minor procedural complaints about how the Liverpool Pathway was administered: this reader's family wasn't timely notified, that reader's loved one's sheets weren't changed, that reader wasn't notified when loved one died, etc. No understanding what the quota system meant. When that was pointed out to readers, still no reaction. How can they not react to finding out their hospitals are being financially coerced by their gov't into killing non-terminal patients? This is an example of the extreme and imo, terminal, passivity I see in Britain.

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    7. Sounds like the death panels opponents of O-care used to speak about.

      I've decided to smuggle something new into my history teaching: note the trajectories that certain decisions set for people and nations.

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  10. I should have said Scots are socialist drunks.

    Scotland is now a net loss to England cuz English taxpayers send welfare payments to Scotland. Scottish MP's vote on English matters as members of Britain's Parliament but English MP's do not vote on Scottish matters cuz Scotland also has its own Parliament.

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    1. Wow. I don't know if I would label the whole nation as socialist drunks. The Scots are amazing scientists, engineers, and writers, and one of them founded the US Navy--best invention history.

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    2. In Defence of Ms.Her, she may have a valid point, about the Scots and their alkyhol. It does seem that they do work harder, and somewhat smarter, under the influence tho... Tis also True, that the most famous historic riposte uttered by a sloshed and sinking underdog: "I have not yet begun to fight", is rightly credited to a Scot reborn as an American Rebel aka Capt.J.P.Jones! Moreover, and most assuredly, he was one of the 'Old Navy' founders who wouldn't have survived the meandering course of history, without the required ration o' spirits, supplied by a Magic Frog who also pointed him toward the rhumb line home, and his final resting place, Annapolis...

      From the annals:
      ..."A local politician, M. Pierre François Simonneau, could not bear to have the former naval hero buried like a pauper; he ensured Jones received a funeral befitting his status. Simonneau believed that one day the body of Jones would be returned to the United States so he arranged to have the body preserved in alcohol and placed in a lead coffin"...

      SO DOWN THE HATCH, Mates, key in G, "You'll Never Be Blue In a Blue Uniform You're welcome as the flowers in may...
      More annals below:
      http://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.mil/2015/04/24/john-paul-jones-comes-home-to-the-u-s-naval-academy/

      On Watch~~~

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  11. Thanks for covering Tommy's situation. He may well die in prison this time, or worse (e.g., torture via Prison Napalm - boiling water laced with lots of sugar).

    We have been covering Tommy Robinson for a long time. He has overcome the wicked class warfare, the beatings, the police break-ins at 2:00 am to serve him a warrant, the confiscation of his livelihood, bank accounts, cars (his father's car, too). They told him if he'd just shut up they'd let him have it all back. IOW, the govt helped create Tommy.

    They fitted him for prison by threatening to try his wife instead. It worked. He went quietly. Whatever EU body -or the Geneva Convention - that determines the level of humane solitary confinement set it at (I think) 14 days. I'm relying on memory now, but iirc, he was in solitary for over 50 days. The govt got away with this by moving him from one prison to another at the end of a fortnight or so. Sometimes they just put him in a cab, sans police or prison accompaniment. Because they knew he was a "good citizen".

    Now he's in more danger than ever. They won't just punch out all his teeth this time.

    Thank God for the international notice. Geert Wilders has appeared with a group in front of the English embassy...

    Of course, in D.C., that wretched hive of scum and villainy, you wouldn't be able to round up a crowd...I do hope some bikers further out are planning to ride.

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  12. It has happened here. Remember the alleged video that created Benghazi ?
    Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, the Coptic Christian whose short video “The Innocence of Muslims” was initially faulted for sparking the Sept. 11, 2012 terror attack at U.S. diplomatic compounds in Libya, is now living in a homeless shelter run by First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif. He has served time in prison, been shamed publicly by the White House and threatened with death.

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    1. Bravo! I wish I had remembered that! Good point.

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    2. I kept Nakoula in mind for a long time but he gradually fell off the wire where dwell all the wounded birds who come to my attention. Didn't know he was still homeless.

      So HillKill didn't have him done in? Now there's a fellow who deserves a GoFundMe page. But by now he no doubt needs a conservator to help him sort it out.

      The Copts are a intelligent remnant of what was once the Egyptian people. Amazing how a few always remain and keep their culture. Even as the Arabized majority continue to persecute them. Why do some people decide there are worse things than dying??

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    3. Diplomad

      Below I concede that is my description was an over-generalization, meant for the ruling Scottish National Party and its hard core followers. But they set the direction and tone of Scotland.

      I don't in any way deny the Scotland you describe. My favorite Enlightenment thinker, Adam Smith, is of that Scotland. But I think things have very much changed.

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    4. That's why Shrillary Shrooooooo and her minions should never be let near a lever of power ever again.

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  13. Msher's intemperate comments about an entire nation set me thinking -- what if Msher happened to have the most successful TV program(me) on an American network and made those comments about the Scots? Well, he would still have his program(me).

    Now replace the reference to Scottish people with a reference to certain other people -- and poor Msher would find himself a social outcast who would never eat lunch in this town again.

    Of course, Msher's wild remarks about Scottish people are the kind of thing that is a source of great mirth to Scots -- and he himself will get his 15 minutes of fame as a laughing stock. Msher could undoubtedly walk into a bar anywhere in Scotland and find people who would buy him a beer just for his entertainment value.

    On the other hand, if Msher made those kinds of remarks about certain other people, he would probably have to go into hiding for the rest of his life with a fatwa on his head.

    How do we make everyone more like the Scots?

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    1. Gavin Longmuir

      Of course I am wildly over-generalizing about the Scots. I don't think, however, I am wrong about the SNP and its followers, who set the agenda for Scotland, or that Scotland is a fiscal drag on England and its MPs in Parliament drag policy for England leftwards.

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    2. "Msher could undoubtedly walk into a bar anywhere in Scotland and find people who would buy him a beer"...

      Ya think so? Seems more likely, based on current events, that your symbolic "Beer" will've been paid for by non-Scots. We've got the same kind of freeloaders overhere! They loved Obama's Marxism too!
      On Watch~~~

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    3. How do you know that Scotland is an economic drag, Anonymous? Clearly, because you read it in the ever-reliable Main Stream Media. News flash! – Most of us have learned not to trust the MSM.

      Think about this: Msher’s hilarious diatribe against the entire Scottish nation did have one germ of truth in it – the majority of English people support independence for Scotland. Yet England’s version of the US Best & Brightest ran “Operation Fear”, which succeeded in frightening enough old ladies that the independence referendum in Scotland narrowly failed. Why did the London elite do that if Scotland was such a drag on England? Enquiring minds want to know!

      (As a side note, the same London elite unsuccessfully tried to repeat Operation Fear to convince Brits to reject Brexit. The fascinating observation is that younger English people succumbed to the Brexit Operation Fear and voted against Brexit, whereas younger Scots did not succumb to the earlier version of Operation Fear and voted for Independence. It makes one wonder about the longer-term future of the English).

      But let’s not lose sight of the main issue here. If Msher had made similarly hilariously over-the-top blanket condemnations of the French, the Irish, the Poles instead of the Scots, the only difference would have been the people regarding him as a laughing stock. On the other hand, if Msher had similarly condemned “British” Pakistanis to the outer darkness, he would potentially have ended up in the same cell as Tommy Robinson.

      Why do the British Best & Brightest favor unassimilated Pakistani perverts over their own native population? Why do the DC Swamp Best & Brightest favor illiterate illegal immigrants over their own citizens? That disconnect between the Political Classes and their nations is the real issue – one which is leading directly towards disaster.

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    4. Gavin, your last para is pure gold! BTW, Msher is a female.

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    5. Gavin Longmuir

      I replied further below.

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    6. ..."Scotland is an economic drag...Clearly, because you read it in the ever-reliable Main Stream Media. News flash! – Most of us have learned not to trust the MSM." - Gavin the Longwinded

      Well aren't you a special case, and a mindreader too! With deference to your, "most of us learn-ed" types, which you seem to have gotten stuck n your craw, and it reeks of red herring!

      Here's the "News Flash", Shortround, most of what I know about real Scots and Scotland too, I "learned" from a Sgt Major who served with the /Gordons regiment, and what he couldn't teach me, I learned from his born an bred Highland Scot wife ... she taught me how to pick n'preserve produce, bake pies, and swing a hen! An independent and strong woman, thankful and proud to be!

      As far as the number of drunken Scots, on any given Sunday, I'd say, based on decades of observation that they're probably on par with the Russian vodka swallowers!

      Yes, growing and Significant numbers of Scots on the dole data are common knowledge, as are the data which reveals their growing problem with managing their intake of too many "wee half's"!

      As for your recent epiphany viz fake news, here's a piece, picked it out randomly from the MSM especially for you to gag on ;)
      https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-23/waiting-trump-scotland-brexit-protests-and-mexican-flag

      As for me, I get all the news I need from the Donald, Dip 2.0, and Tracy Ullman:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fin6aP1WbaA

      On Watch~~~
      "Let's Roll"


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    7. Anonymous -- Dip's blog is a high spot in the Internet, a place where we can be entertained and informed at the same time. Disagreement is good, because we learn from different viewpoints. Let's try to keep Dip's blog an island of civility.

      That said --with respect, ad hominems carry more credibility when the writer is not hiding behind "Anonymous". Just saying ...

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    8. Well, I am very impressed with old Dr. George Buchanan, royal tutor to young James VI (later James VI and I). When the young king wouldn't do his Latin homework, Buchanan birched the royal backside in fine, 16th century pedagogical style. Jamie went running to the Countess of Mar (not all stepmothers/foster mothers in days of yore were mean), who indignantly told the royal tutor, "How dare you strike the Lord's Anointed!" Buchanan replied, "Madame, I have whipped his ar$e; you may kiss it, if you please."

      Buchanan died in bed, aged, full of years, and honored by kirk, people, and nobility of Scotland. He was also an early advocate of the idea of political compact and the political supremacy of law over the will of the monarch.

      There are a number of other figures from Scottish history of whom I could speak well...

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  14. It is good to note that TR's imprisonment has been recognised as a sign of Britain further becoming an Islamic state. The more Americans that can be informed the better for America. You might have a chance to prevent the USA going the same way as every Islamic country on earth, down the toilet of Sharia.

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    1. I notice some who are simply saying TR's arrest and imprisonment represents protecting the integrity of the British legal system-the judge, jury and accused. Others see this event as the heavy hand of a suspect State meaning to deal with a 'trouble maker' once and for good.

      Either way, there needs to be a thousand more Tommy Robinsons.

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  15. Re Tommy Robinson: here's an account by a chap who may well know what he's talking about.
    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/05/25/what-has-happened-to-poor-tommy-robinson/

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    1. So, England truly does have laws that promote an oligarchy.

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    2. I read the "secret" barrister's account. I stopped reading it when he reduced Tommy R to a racist. Having worked with him a long time, I know that's not true.

      "Racist" is the easiest epithet to throw around. As in, anyone who doesn't agree with Obama is a racist.

      Feh. "Racist" is the new "Nazi".

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    3. A lot of Tommy's friends are black and brown. He isn't a racist - what an easy slur to throw.

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  16. Reading this post & the comments reminded me of the "John Doe" Warrants used in Wisconsin in 2013? to silence conservatives & hinder/ruin their grassroots organizations.

    Lawfare 'here' despite the Constitutional protections we so often enjoy. It's been awhile since I've read the details, so my memory is 'fluid'. I don't recall any of the Zealous and Stasi-ish prosecutors/minions going to jail or losing their sacred pensions....

    I pray for Tommy & his family

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  17. Gavin Longmuir

    I have lived in Paris. What I said about Scotland was mild as compared to what I can say about the Parisans, whom I generally really disliked. I live now in California, where I think most voters are certifiably insane.

    Talking about the characteristics of a whole population is always over-generalization meant to give a flavor or emphasis. I disliked Parisians, but there are a number of individual Parisians I liked very much. Most Calif. voters are certifiably insane - except the ones who aren't.

    I never read any analysis of the economics of Scottish independence - except for the clearly wrong SNP claims that North Sea oil would fiance an independent Scotland. The opinion that Scotland economically is a drag on England is my own based on a number of things and figures that came out prior to the referendum on Scottish independence. No gov't or media source ever put figures together to tell the public about which way the net benefits flowed in dollar (or pound) or fiscal terms. They stayed away from that kind of discussion altogether.

    I have no stake in being right in what I said about Scotland.I don't think I am wrong about the prevalence of socialist politics. But I could be completely wrong about the prevalence of drunks, as I can think of no solid proof, and everyone's right: I shouldn't slander a whole nation. So I'll take the drunk part back.

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  18. Having read up a little on the situation, I am curious about the reaction here.

    My understanding is that, if TR had waited until after the trial to show his video, there would have been no consequences. Does the timing issue still make it a case of free speech impingement? What was the purpose on insisting upon immediate broadcast, as opposed to waiting until after the trial was over?

    My understanding is that if the defense can make a case that a juror has seen the broadcast or been influenced by someone who has, they can make a very possibly successful motion for a retrial. Is the right to an immediate broadcast (as opposed to a delayed broadcast) more important than the ability to successfully conclude a trial?

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    1. Surely everyone in the area must be aware that men of Pakistani origin have been accused of grooming under-age native English girls for sex, while the Authorities turned a blind eye? Anyone who did not know about that would have been too dumb to have been a juror. So social media showing accused men going into the courthouse is hardly likely to influence any juror.

      The more important issue is the official connivance while young women were abused -- and unfortunately those officials are not on trial. One can't help but suspect that the extreme actions against reporting on the trial are as much aimed at protecting mendacious or incompetent public employees as they are at preventing a vengeful outbreak of traditional English Paki-bashing.

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    2. Are you saying there is no difference between the general concept of "some men of Pakistani origin", and the individual, specific identification of particular men, with (occasionally incorrectly) crimes attributed to each particular man?

      Regardless of whom you think people are trying to protect, you did not address the questions I asked. I'll ask one more: If the trial resulted in a mistrial because of Tommy Robinson's impatience, would you hold him in any way responsible for that?

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    3. One Brow -- Lawyers are always going to play games. I would not be surprised if lawyers for the Brits of Pakistani origin file for a mistrial regardless of the circumstances. That possibility is no excuse for the heinous treatment of a UK citizen.

      This case has been extensively discussed in international media which are readily accessible within the UK (see, for example, steynonline.com). TR's activities did not change that.

      At least in the US, jurors are asked if they can set aside any prior knowledge they have of a case and make their decision based strictly on the information presented in the trial. If the London Establishment did not trust its jurors, they should have sequestered the jury -- not imposed pre-Magna Carta draconian punishment on one individual in a clear attempt to shut down public awareness of a very serious case, with ramifications which spread far beyond the activities of those British Pakistanis.

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    4. Gavin Longmuir,

      I acknowledge that lawyers will always play games. It's still preferable to minimize the njumber of dice they can roll, is it not?

      I acknowledge that this case has been discussed in much of the media and is well-known. What is not well-known is the identities of the men involved. What's curious is that you try to argue, in the same comment, that the case is well-reported on, and that this is an attempt to shut down public awareness. You might seem more reasonable if you picked one or the other and stuck with it.

      You talk about draconian punishment, but it seems to me this is very standard punishment for those who violate probation for prior offenses. I wonder how many probation violators you have met.

      Tommy Robinson only had to observe the same restrictions placed on every other member of the media, and knew he was on probation for a prior occurrence of this exact behavior.

      Any chance you'll answer the questions I asked?

      Delete
    5. Asked and answered, One Brow! Remember, TR's prior conviction was for reporting on the same case -- all part of the same Establishment effort to divert attention away from it. TR did not prejudice any individual's opportunity to get a fair trial.

      Personal view -- more important is the people who are not on trial. The politicians, police, bureaucrats and -- yes -- lawyers who knew what was happening and did nothing. Those are the ones who should be on trial, and I hope that TR's personal sacrifice leads to that.

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    6. Gavin Longmuir, I'm a little thick sometimes. I can't infer your answer to the questions, so I will restate them. Please spell it out a bit more for me.

      Does the timing issue still make it a case of free speech impingement?

      What was the purpose on insisting upon immediate broadcast, as opposed to waiting until after the trial was over?

      Is the right to an immediate broadcast (as opposed to a delayed broadcast) more important than the ability to successfully conclude a trial?

      re you saying there is no difference between the general concept of "some men of Pakistani origin", and the individual, specific identification of particular men, with (occasionally incorrectly) crimes attributed to each particular man?

      If the trial resulted in a mistrial because of Tommy Robinson's impatience, would you hold him in any way responsible for that?

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    7. I believe the men had been convicted and Robinson, having obtained permission to broadcast from the duty policemen, was standing across the road at the time of sentencing. The BBC and the British press published the men's names in April.

      Delete
    8. Stewart,

      I agree that would be more troubling. However, the news reports I have read refer to the trial as having been "ongoing".

      The news reports also mentioned that there have been several trials. Perhaps the names released in April were for a prior trial?

      Delete
  19. Msher -- In many ways, we are on the same page. Someone once said that every nation gets the government it deserves, and we the people have to acknowledge our collective responsibility for the growth of Big Intrusive Government. The destruction of California is one of the prime examples. I have to admit that I lived there once … and then voted with my feet.

    I also agree that it is very hard to get meaningful data about whether Scotland supports England or vice versa. But even if official data was available, would we believe it? For example, US Government figures on the unemployment rate are "accurate but misleading".

    The 30,000 ft view is that little New Zealand (largely settled by Scottish immigrants) survives quite happily far away on the wrong side of the world; little Finland in the far north manages to have the best educational system in the world; even tiny Iceland can survive its own financial management. There is no doubt that an independent Scotland would be economically viable -- although there is also no doubt that the initial phase of independence would be painful.

    That is what I find so fascinating about the successes & failures of the London Establishment's "Operation Fear". Knowing that independence would initially be hard, young Scots were prepared to buckle down and try; told that exit from the EU would have an initial price, young England voted for near-term comfort. We get the governments we deserve!

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    Replies
    1. Gavin Longmuir

      I am a native Californian. My childhood was spent in the state when it was the Golden State of legend. I left for traveling and a career on Wall Street. I returned to California to find what I describe as Mexico del Norte meets the Mad Hatter's Tea Party. I hope I and other conservatives don't "deserve" Calif's gov't. Of course we should move out of Calif., but there are usually reasons why we can't. Likewise, I am sure Scotland is full of people who deserve better than the SNP. The English are a hard case. They are so passive as they watch their gov't screw them time and them again...and they do nothing, they try nothing. My mother and maternal family were English, so it bothers me to see the English so passive (unlike the Scots) and Britain doomed to the terrible future the EU and/or ruling class has planned for it. Of course, the progressives have a dire future planned for the U.S. too and are in a temper tantrum that the electorate at least temporarily messed that up by electing Trump.

      Delete
  20. Diplomad

    https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/is-the-freedom-of-speech-dead-in-britain/

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  21. Churchill once asserted that the Germans are either at your feel or at your throat. This certainly appears to be the case today with the British governing classes...they are at the feet of murderous Islamists, but at the throat of any ordinary citizen who might get out of line.

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  22. A US case of suppressing free speech:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/feds-drop-charges-against-anti-trump-protesters-after-hiding-videos-from-defense

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